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<small><font face="Verdana">I get the point but on the business model
if you are buying an aggregate total service for $4m a year and selling
it for $1m and less , depending that a third of your customers will pay
you for nothing and lie about what everyone is getting as a product (
speed what is is how you are getting it ( speed how its measured mgb -
MGB ) and also pretending that your customers really only need a
portion ( downstream versus up ) <br>
<br>
then " Houston I think we have a problem ? " <br>
<br>
There is a nice article in European mag about service speed lies I will
dig it out and post it<br>
<br>
( : ( : pete<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: maroon;">Peter
Baston</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: maroon;">IDEAS</span></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: maroon;"><a
href="http://www.ideapete.com/"><em><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.ideapete.com</span></em></a></span></p>
<br>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<br>
<br>
Steve Ross wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:483B1095.7010003@gmail.com" type="cite">Bear in
mind that you can sell at 1/10 X if you assume:
<br>
<br>
1. Your users won't all be using the bandwidth at once. (But also bear
in mind that this won't last, even if it is true now.)
<br>
<br>
2. Much of your traffic is local (40% is local in many subnetworks
today).
<br>
<br>
3. Your users won't test their true bandwidth.
<br>
<br>
... and yes, the bankers are dumb.
<br>
<br>
<br>
Steven S. Ross
<br>
Editor-in-Chief
<br>
Broadband Properties
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:steve@broadbandproperties.com">steve@broadbandproperties.com</a>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.bbpmag.com">www.bbpmag.com</a>
<br>
SKYPE: editorsteve
<br>
+1 781-284-8810
<br>
+1 646-216-8030 fax
<br>
+1 201-456-5933 mobile
<br>
<br>
peter wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Agree John, I have a relative who works at L3
( who laid it all ) in Denver and I watched that sad sale event with
the lack of available break offs in NM with horror
<br>
<br>
One of the issues we keep running into is deliberate smoke and mirrors
of the logic behind all this
<br>
<br>
What first caught my eye at the INQ site about the open access
announcement is the statement that " Its going to cost a lot of money
at T3 ", thats the first time I have ever hear that comment and its
absolutely spot on
<br>
<br>
In my business world two sets of rules operate, business and technical,
and in most cases the B rule is paramount no mater how much
gobbledygook technobabble is being thrown around
<br>
<br>
Simply, you cannot buy or operate a service for $4 and sell it for $1
unless you really are fond of two numbers 7 and 11
<br>
<br>
Now lets look at the Tier description ( I will not go deep with
traffic and routing and services or packet layers just the overall
pattern and generic overview )
<br>
<br>
* Tier 1 - A network that can reach every other network on the
<br>
Internet without purchasing IP transit.
<br>
* Tier 2 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_2_network"><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_2_network></a> - A
network
<br>
that peers with some networks, but still purchases IP transit to
<br>
reach at least some portion of the Internet.
<br>
* Tier 3 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_3_ISP"><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_3_ISP></a> - A
network that
<br>
solely purchases transit from other networks to reach the
Internet.
<br>
<br>
Normally this B rule applies and yes I know there are exceptions
<br>
<br>
Tier 1 suppliers service cost $X and so they sell it to Tier 2 at $X+
<br>
Tier 2 suppliers service cost $X+ and so they sell it to Tier 2 at $X++
<br>
<br>
Thats why when I hear the rhetoric from a pure Tier 3 supplier (
Azulstar - Sandoval County Broadband and others ) that they can supply
FULL service service at 1/10 of $X I just roll over and laugh keeping
both hands in my pocket.
<br>
<br>
Frequently in our business we look at different industries and apply
patterns for comparison and when i ran the 1/10 cost Tier 3 past a
banking friend of mine he identified and laughed out loud and
immediately he called it a Ponzi scheme and would advise the
perpetrators to look forward to a nice comfortable federal penitentiary
holiday. He did however compliment the inventors on a new variation
until I pointed out banks were financing this and then the Eureka
moment turned into an Oh Shit session.
<br>
<br>
Similarly part of our companies business is in the power industry and
they have a similar tier structure albeit with a different name that
looks like this
<br>
<br>
* Tier 1 - Power production at the power plant source at Ultra
HIGH
<br>
Voltage ( normally in a remote are close to a fuel source )
<br>
* Tier 2 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_2_network"><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_2_network></a> -
<br>
Transmission lines that carry the power to local area need
sources
<br>
stepped down to High Voltage
<br>
* Tier 3 <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_3_ISP"><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_3_ISP></a> - Local
delivery
<br>
transmission and customer service supply stepped down from High
to
<br>
medium and usable voltage
<br>
<br>
<br>
One of the great debates that occurred at the breakup of the power
industry ( still going on today ) to make efficient cost effective
service was first the ownership split of Tier 2 from the incumbent
owners of Tier 1 and 3 to prevent monopolization practices that we find
common in the communications industry , this natural progression will
mean eventually Tier 1 - 2- 3 users must be independent and separate
companies. A model we could well follow in our industry. Ironically
this is how companies like L3 started
<br>
<br>
The BIGGIE point, and I think this is what John is focusing on, is that
if the senior legislatures at both federal and state and county level
do not understand what a TIER is let alone a LAYER protocol let alone
the difference between MGB and mgb then the Broadbandits win by default
and it seems like the only people who really give a dam are people in
our groups and so Richard how are we going to Edumakreat ( deliberate
pun ) them thar burocrustraetions
<br>
<br>
Count me in anyway you want, this sounds like Leapfrog on steroids
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ideapete.com/leapfrog.html">http://www.ideapete.com/leapfrog.html</a> all over again
<br>
<br>
( : ( : pete
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Peter Baston
<br>
<br>
*IDEAS*
<br>
<br>
/www.ideapete.com/ <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.ideapete.com/"><http://www.ideapete.com/></a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
John Brown wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">there are other "major owners"
<br>
<br>
You have ATT, Verizon (ex MCI), Global Crossing, Sprint, 360 Networks
<br>
<br>
<br>
what people don't understand or know is that many of these don't "break
out" in NM.
<br>
<br>
for example you can not get IP transit from Level3 in NM.
<br>
<br>
its more complicated that most folks understand, and the layer 8 folks
like to keep it that way......
<br>
<br>
<br>
peter wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Precisely the point John --- you look
at the primary fiber across NM and you see two current major owners
Level 3 and Qwest . -- end game period. net newt died
<br>
<br>
Peter Baston
<br>
<br>
*IDEAS*
<br>
<br>
/www.ideapete.com/ <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.ideapete.com/"><http://www.ideapete.com/></a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
John Brown wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">and so i wonder how they will handle
the fact that they BUY transit from others are are not a tier 1
(meaning default free in the routing table) and those others can/could
limit certain types of traffic flows.
<br>
<br>
now if a tier 1 came out and said it was net-neutral, that would be a
BIG story.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
peter wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Yup net neutrality at a price ---
example from article below "/ //Users in Colorado, for example, will
have to cough up a staggering $33.95 a month for a 256Kbps DSL
connection—expensive by any standard (except perhaps in Kazakhstan
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070727-the-internet-in-kazakhstan-welcome-to-the-land-of-3355-per-month-dsl.html"><http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070727-the-internet-in-kazakhstan-welcome-to-the-land-of-3355-per-month-dsl.html></a>).
"/
<br>
<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/Meet-Copowi-the-worlds-first-ISP-to-guarantee-network-neutrality.ars">http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/Meet-Copowi-the-worlds-first-ISP-to-guarantee-network-neutrality.ars</a>
<br>
-- <br>
<br>
Peter Baston
<br>
<br>
*IDEAS*
<br>
<br>
/www.ideapete.com/ <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.ideapete.com/"><http://www.ideapete.com/></a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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