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As well as spelling out very clearly what applications ( with realistic
cost benefit analysis's ) are running on these pipes especially when
the biggest most power IT company worldwide ( Google ) is running a
very different model and its working.<br>
<br>
Most of the reason for this waste is simply the state cannot StateIT or
DoIT period. plus the fact that they audit IT themselves ( take the
pun however you wish )<br>
<br>
There is far to much emphasis on hardware , pipes and boxes, when the
whole purpose of the exercise is what the hardware enables an
application to do, guess which should come first.<br>
<br>
An open source "Beoulf cluster " would out perform the Intel based
NMCAC system five fold and would have cost a fraction but the expense
accounts would shrink too, yuck.. It would be curious to see how many
humongous salaries are buried in these projects, and why that data is
not on line, especially for work that could be done by a freshman in a
weekend<br>
<br>
Maybe part of the glacial movement is simply there is not network /
system / application plan and its really grab the money for anything
you can and keep overwhelming the legislature funders with paperwork.<br>
<br>
No plan, no can period<br>
<br>
I think its especially funny when all the position papers / rfps /
other support data are all Pdfs straight from trees and NM state
departments and DoIT are still arguing whether email and texting is an
official form of communication, using it not saving it they have
already figured out how not to do the later. THAT says everything..<br>
<br>
John we have to change those TLA's I keep rolling over laughing<br>
<br>
( : ( : pete<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
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Baston</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: maroon;">IDEAS</span></strong></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: maroon;"><a
href="http://www.ideapete.com/"><em><span style="font-family: Arial;">www.ideapete.com</span></em></a></span></p>
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<br>
<br>
John Brown wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:485FF727.2020704@citylinkfiber.com" type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Yup, DoIT likes to spend money that it doesn't have to spend. Thus
wasting our funds.
As far as I'm concerned our State IT management has failed multiple
"intelligence tests" and should be held accountable for it.
Lets look at one of them.........
Lambda Rail to NMCAC connection.
The NMCAC RFP stated that the NMCAC is suppose to have, initially 1
10Gig pipe, with growth to a total of 4 10Gig pipes.
NMCAC was housed at iNTEL in Rio Rancho (Sandoval County). Yet there is
NO Lambda Rail connection at iNTEL or in Sandoval County.
The state, via SGI (Sillicon Graphics Inc) cut a deal with a major
carrier to provide a 10Gig Pipe from downtown ABQ to iNTEL.
Price tag: approx $25,000 per month for 36 months $900,000 total
According to SGI and The Gov's office, this link was suppose to be
operational by March 3, 2008. Its Jun 23, 2008 and rumors have that
its just now become """"operational"""".
I know of a company that proposed to build a fiber network from downtown
to iNTEL for the $900,000 and then GIVE TO THE STATE 48 strands of DARK
FIBER. That translates to around 9600 times the amount of bandwidth
needed by NMCAC. So 40Gig x 9600 == BUCKETS OF BANDWIDTH.
The ongoing costs to the state after the 3rd year was less than $50k per
year.
The winners would have been:
NMCAC / UNM / NM-NLR / CIRT / STATE of NM / iNTEL
County of Sandoval (the iNTEL site could have become a carrier hotel for
Sandoval County)
Businesses and residential users along the route from downtown to iNTEL.
DoIT's response, nothing. They went and supported spending money with a
major carrier for a fraction of a fraction of the bandwidth.
Personally I support NLR and the technical potential of NM-NLR. It
could be a very BIG win for EVERYONE in our state, if only the
management of NM-NLR would actually manage and come good on the various
promises that have been made.
There has been to much smoke and mirrors. I can not for the life of me
figure out why it takes YEARS to turn up bandwidth on 2 strands of
fiber. Just this last weekend I connected 4 x 10Gig waves across two
strands of fiber. That included racking, powering up, configuring,
splicing, termination of the fiber, etc.
Sure .GOV moves slow, we all know that, but I've seen glaciers advance
faster than this. (That particular glacier is located on the South
Island of New Zealand. Its advancing at the rate of 2 meters per year)
There are MULTIPLE events like the one described above. I suspect that
DoIT has wasted multiple MILLIONS in dollars that it didn't need to spend.
Just think what those MILLIONS would have done for other projects in the
state.
Say Libraries ????
peter wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Hi Janice
Count me in at the politico help level ( explain this thing technology
mantra to all ) this is a huge issue for the NM economy and only with
some very hard questions being asked from your level with any clarity
ever evolve.
Currently its a huge boondoggle money pit going nowhere.
Its only when all the details and benefits are clearly undependable to
all participants at all levels whatever technical skill sets or
knowledge that these systems will ever work.
Will help in any way i can
Richard again this spells out what our listserve should really do " Use
our technology to demonstrate our technology " because NLR / NM-NRL /
CIRT - UNM sure cannot
( : ( : pete
Peter Baston
*IDEAS*
/www.ideapete.com/ <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.ideapete.com/"><http://www.ideapete.com/></a>
Janice E. Arnold-Jones wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">While I don't comment often (hardly at all) I read every 1st mile
communication. The answer to John Brown's question continues to elude
me as well. It is time for some answers and a path forward that
yields functional results. If ever we needed this list-servs'
combined experience and insight, it is now!
/"Real connectivity will help us overcome our geography, preserve our
environment, and enhance our economic prosperity!"
/
Janice E. Arnold-Jones
Representative, House District 24
7713 Sierra Azul NE
Albuquerque, NM 87110
(505) 379-0902 cell
(505) 938-3141 work
(505) 938-3160 fax
-----Original Message-----
From: John Brown <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:john@citylinkfiber.com"><john@citylinkfiber.com></a>
To: peter <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pete@ideapete.com"><pete@ideapete.com></a>
Cc: 1st-Mile-NM <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org"><1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org></a>
Sent: Mon, 23 Jun 2008 12:20 pm
Subject: Re: [1st-mile-nm] Chicago firm to sell untapped Lamdarail
fiber bandwidth
whats interesting is that NLR and NM-NLR (two different entities) have
pitched to various people around the state that Commercial use would be
available for the NLR connection.
County of Sandoval NM wanted (and still wants) to leverage the NLR
connection for commercial economic development.
Other local commercial companies have expressed interest.
To date, the NM-NLR folks haven't figured out how to make that work.
Even with commercial types willing to help the process.
The question that I haven't ever been able to get answered from anyone
at NM-NLR / UNM / CIRT, etc is:
Ok, So I connect to LambdaRail in Albuquerque (or Intel or Santa Fe or
??), what is the other end of the connection ??? Does this guarantee
that I have a connection to Sony Studios in Culver City?? or to ??
No one can actually articulate the technical process and path that
packets will take once they are presented at the 505 Marquette location.
Its a technical question and it requires a technical answer. To date
its been glossed over by the technical people managing NM-NLR.
It would be nice to see that well articulated answer on this list.
At present NM-NLR is a $5,000,000 ""asset"" that really isn't seeing
much use. Heck NMSU and NM Tech still are not connected, even after
everyone said they where a year ago.
John Brown, for himself
the views expressed here are my personal views and do not represent any
the views of any commercial interest.
peter wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I don't think that's the point Barney
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Let me lay out my train of thought for this posting in addition to
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">the
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">voluminous emails I have received this morning.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Internet 2 ( I2 )and National LambdaRail* *( LMDR ) have a
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">fundamentally
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">different business model, based on the fact that I2 uses and leases
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">its
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">systems whereas LMDR wants to OWN everything end to end with someone
else paying the tab.. The latter model doesn't even have a real
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">business
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">plan (what university or government idea does?) and no idea of final
cost, except that its going to be huge $$$. I2/Abilene is following the
electrical power "honest broker" infrastructure model of different
entities controlling production, transmission and end supply to create
impartiality and prevent an end to end monopoly, especially
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">important as
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">open access joins the ultra high bandwidth arena. LMDR wants to create
an absolute monopoly from end to end. The commercial companies spotted
this immediately and have been hammering at LMDR about the fact that
they could end up sitting on a trillion-dollar asset -- all created
under the feel good mantra of great research funded with public and
private donated dollars.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">When LMDR tried to swallow I2 last year part of the different
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">attitudes
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">of both boards was the primary fact that it seemed LMDR was creating an
absolute monopoly and it was obvious to many sources that I have talked
to that LMDR was even then closely involved with commercial entities
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">who
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">could make a pile of money out of this. Now we know it was Darkstrand.
I2 found this absolutely repellent to the very nature of the system and
so balked. Thats why the takeover failed. (If anyone has any more
details please post them.) Even go look at their websites and tell me
which one really understands the web at todays lowly level and who
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">knows
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">where its headed (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.internet2.edu/">http://www.internet2.edu/</a> and <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nlr.net/">http://www.nlr.net/</a>).
I2's tagline "Member FOCUSED, member led" says it all. LMDR can now say
with a straight face "Using YOUR donated money to benefit our directors
and shareholders."
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Some of the mail I have received this morning makes me out to be a
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Luddite / LMDR bigot, and for those who know me is laughable. No, I
simply do not like to see my tax and donation dollars extracted under
false pretenses.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Back in about 2001, I served as senior technology adviser to the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Association of Commerce and Industry (ACI) in Albuquerque. Why me?
Well, read here <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.ideapete.com/who.html">http://www.ideapete.com/who.html</a>. Frankly, i was
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">trusted
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">and potential tech fund raisers were not. LMDR local CIRT / UNM
sponsors were trying to raise money for the local service connections
including the gigabit pop at 505 Marquette and its connection to UNM
CIRT, lobbying (mostly unsuccessfully) at all levels including
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">state. No
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">one at ACI really understood what LMDR was and how it impacted business
and the economy, and so I was detailed to sort out all the technobabble
being thrown around and enlighten ACI members. At the time much had
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">been
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">made of the fact that if business got behind the project, there
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">would be
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">huge benefits to industry and we (the business community) would be a
primary cost efficient benefit user, and massive educational, health
benefits would accrue, and on and on. Lots and lots of blue sky
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">thinking
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">and very little application outline and real rubber-meets-the-road
clearly defined objectives or clarity. I even heard from one senior
CIRT/LMDR source and he knows who he is ,when questioned about
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">financial
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">cost planning " Heck this is too exciting to put a price tag on it, its
only money " I hope his mortgage company feels the same way.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">ACI delivered what we had been asked for and actively and
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">successfully
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">lobbied for funds. Even then, we pointed out that "You (UNM / CIRT /
LMDR local) have made some huge assumptions but have not developed any
clear plans for deployment and application or prudent financial
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">need. We
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">(ACI) can really help you to do that." In many of the conversations
over the years with research departments who were the nominally
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">targeted
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">end users asking what do you really need now and what will you need in
the future, ( called usability engineering ) it became very apparent
that, with the massive transformation in data originating from the
evolution from API-local-machine to API-application-cloud -worldwide, a
whole different model of information distribution was evolving and many
departments were, bluntly, even questioning the need for CIRT with its
system control, uber-boss mentality and the need for another expensive
centralized fat pipe system. I, and some financial experts at our top
local banks and audit companies, also thought that the financing that
would be required for LMDR to really work had been grossly
underestimated -- purposely -- and, again, they had a plan with no cost
basis except for expensive VERY expensive. LMDR is in need of LOTS of
money because its basic premise and plan was totally non realistic.
Supercomputers now are being outperformed worldwide by very different
initiatives (such as Beowulf clusters) for faster smaller more flexible
systems (Google api's) so that, to the researchers' joy, a heck of a
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">lot
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">more budget dollars are going directly to the project bottom line.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I2 got real industrial strength financial planning support from the
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">get-go. hence their very different model. After the ACI successfully
lobbied for the first basic capital support, and even contributed, we
were basically told to F*#@ off. Seven years later, I still do not see
any evidence that any application needs analysis, business plan,
realistic cost analysis even exists at UNM - CIRT - LMDR ( local or
national ) even the blue sky buzzwords have not changed.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Again, what are the main problems with the LMDR initiative: Well,
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">it's
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">been used as a huge fund raising tool by multiple people in this state
and nationwide (some involved in fraud, like Sandoval Broadband) who,
frankly, could not not tell the difference between an Ethernet
connection and a light bulb socket. Thats now being turned on its head
into a commercially directed profit center
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I also expect to see many of the LMDR board members nationwide
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">suddenly
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">appear on commercial boards (Darkstrand) making another ton of money,
which would lead one to suspect the fix was in from the start.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Under the circumstances, I think it would be prudent to freeze all
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">future government (at all levels, including university associated
grants) investment in LMDR until its board and Darkstrand come
absolutely clean with its business plan (audited, and including real
applications not buzzwords) and show us who really benefits (again,
audited) and what they did with all the money. Or let Goggle buy them
out and fire everyone who played this game.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">This is the entire future of the US we are talking about, and
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">looking at
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">the pattern evolving : LMDR with UNM / CIRT as its local agent thinks
it's the next AT&T
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Barney, how about posting a clear UNM / CIRT / LMDR business plan
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">initiative that is web active iterate (If you post PDFs and
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">PowerPoints,
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">you have proved my point) online so everyone can see who's what and
where and who REALLY benefits (in real terms, not hyper)?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">I also see that the I2 project site at UNM is 404. Does that mean
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">what I
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">think it does?
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">For Clarity , I am not a member nor do I have any financial
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">interest in
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">either I2 or LMDR.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">For all those on the list intent on sending and spreading vitriol
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">about
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">me: " Bring it on! I was raised in Mugabe country." And if you want to
debate this and post the debate on Youtube, let's go.
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">( : ( : pete
Peter Baston
*IDEAS*
/www.ideapete.com/ <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.ideapete.com/"><http://www.ideapete.com/></a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.ideapete.com/"><http://www.ideapete.com/></a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Arthur Maccabe wrote:
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">Darkstrand's deal with NRL is that they will maintain part of the
infrastructure and provide an infusion of money to extend NLR's assets
in exchange for being able to sell excess bandwidth to commercial
entities. The partnership makes sense in that the universities that
bought into NLR are not in a position to market the assets and, in
wake of the failed I2 merger, NLR was in need of money for expansion
and for maintenance. The assets that we own are still owned by the
members of NLR.
I2 may currently have a better business model than NLR; however, I2's
business model has improved quite bit since the inception of NLR.
Moreover, NLR continues to offer services that I2 cannot offer and,
until recently, I2's governance model was fundamentally broken.
On Jun 22, 2008, at 10:41 PM, peter wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">Ho boy, now a company is going to charge companies for using
Lamdarail after the same companies spent years ponying up and raising
money to build it.
</pre>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-thu-darkstrand-fiber-optic-njun05,0,4884560.story">http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-thu-darkstrand-fiber-optic-njun05,0,4884560.story</a>
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
Internet 2 / Abilene was and is a far better business model
I haven't seen this sort of chicanery since ATT tried to bury packet
switching and Ethernet
Proves my point LMDR was an academic money raising scheme from the
beginning
Who's going to be the first brave person to ask LMDR committee "what
they did with all the money ? "
I also hear that Level 3 "PASSED" on the deal having a "BETTER"
option, something is seriously wrong here
( : ( : pete
-- >>> Peter Baston
IDEAS
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