<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Just want to thank everyone for the very helpful comments,<div class="">db</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Dec 18, 2017, at 9:56 AM, Steve Ross <<a href="mailto:editorsteve@gmail.com" class="">editorsteve@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">AT&T has a big patent portfolio on this -- mainly ways to make the devices cheaply. The idea is to insert very high frequency signals on copper by clamping a transmitter on the wire, every few telephone poles along the line. This gets around the key problem that high frequency signals don't carry very far on copper. With Airgig, they get refreshed every few hundred feet. The (potentially) little refresh/relay devices on the poles would also broadcast to nearby premises and the roadway, replacing a physical drop.<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">They also have variants that can be used on poles as needed to get around transformers and other devices that can screw up signals.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">This is quite different from the old BOP ideas around 2003-4 that inserted much lower frequency signals on devices much farther apart. We're talking 5+ and even 30+ Ghz now, 100 Mhz then.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Even with the short copper runs between signal refresh, the copper has to be in good shape. Latency is pretty high along the network as a whole, and that can be a problem for driverless vehicles, which would probably use 802.11p to communicate with the little antennas that sit on the poles with the refresh circuitry. (Where 5G is installed, cars would presumably use cellular transmissions, not Ethernet 11p directly; ATT has a current test on that using 4G down in San Diego.) Unless conditions are ideal, the costs climb to where fiber would be easier, especially once you look at opex....</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I would see a lot of trouble with using this on a transmission line above 880 V or even above 440 V just because the insulation and isolation issues get dicey and expensive; 440V would probably be the norm, though. Also, big transmission lines usually have fiber alongside anyway. But there is no theoretical reason why this would not work on big DC lines, except that the tower spacing is greater.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We at Broadband Communities tend to think of these sorts of things in business terms. If the market is big enough, the devices can be multi-sourced and made cheaply. But no one solution seems ideal for huge swaths of problems. These are things that bring about 5 or 10% more business cases into the money. And that is GREAT! We have not talked about this much at the magazine, so these opinions are my own.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all" class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><br class=""><br class="">Steve Ross<br class="">Editor-at-Large, Broadband Communities Magazine (<a href="http://www.bbcmag.com/" target="_blank" class="">www.bbcmag.com</a>)<br class="">201-456-5933 mobile<br class="">707-WOW-SSR3 (707-969-7773) Google Voice<br class="">editorsteve (Facebook, LinkedIn)<br class="">editorsteve1 (Twitter)<br class=""><a href="mailto:steve@bbcmag.com" target="_blank" class="">steve@bbcmag.com</a><br class=""><a href="mailto:editorsteve@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">editorsteve@gmail.com</a><br class=""><br class=""></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:08 AM, John Badal <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:JBadal@sacred-wind.com" target="_blank" class="">JBadal@sacred-wind.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div class="m_292590391991241853WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal">I think you’re right. I just remember that Edison favored DC. Guess he lost.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">John<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">From:</b> John Brown [mailto:<a href="mailto:john@citylinkfiber.com" target="_blank" class="">john@citylinkfiber.com</a><wbr class="">] <br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, December 18, 2017 8:52 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> John Badal <<a href="mailto:JBadal@sacred-wind.com" target="_blank" class="">JBadal@sacred-wind.com</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> David Breecker [dba] <<a href="mailto:david@breeckerassociates.com" target="_blank" class="">david@breeckerassociates.com</a>><wbr class="">; 1st-Mile-NM <<a href="mailto:1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org" target="_blank" class="">1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><span class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></p>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal">Aren't our power grids AC ?? <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><span class=""><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:48 AM, John Badal <<a href="mailto:JBadal@sacred-wind.com" target="_blank" class="">JBadal@sacred-wind.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><span class=""><p class="MsoNormal">I looked at this a few years ago, visiting with a former Sandia Labs expert on the matter, and concluded then that the technology was nowhere near acceptable in the U.S. Older
power equipment in rural areas and the number of transponders seemed to be just one hurdle. Signal loss is another. If I recall one overriding issue, with our DC electric power grids that require a power transformer every specified distance, Broadband Over
Powerline (BBPL) will require corrective equipment at every transformer, not just at the switch and customer premise. I’m eager to see what AT&T comes up with. It’ll take a deep pockets company to figure this out.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">John<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in" class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><b class="">From:</b> 1st-mile-nm [mailto:<a href="mailto:1st-mile-nm-bounces@mailman.dcn.org" target="_blank" class="">1st-mile-nm-bounces@<wbr class="">mailman.dcn.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>David Breecker [dba]<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Friday, December 15, 2017 2:52 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> 1st-Mile-NM <<a href="mailto:1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org" target="_blank" class="">1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org</a>><br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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</div><p class="MsoNormal"> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p><p class="MsoNormal">I’m curious to know if anyone knows anything about the effectiveness of this technology in its current state:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><a href="https://na.smartcitiescouncil.com/article/how-internet-over-power-lines-could-be-solution-underserved-communities" target="_blank" class="">https://na.smartcitiescouncil.<wbr class="">com/article/how-internet-over-<wbr class="">power-lines-could-be-solution-<wbr class="">underserved-communities</a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">David Breecker,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">President</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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David Breecker Associates</span></b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Santa Fe Office: <a href="tel:(505)%20690-2335" value="+15056902335" target="_blank" class="">505-690-2335</a></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Abiquiu Office: <a href="tel:(505)%20685-4891" value="+15056854891" target="_blank" class="">505-685-4891</a></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Skype: dbreecker</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p>
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<div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">David Breecker,</div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;">President</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><span><img apple-inline="yes" id="E1C92FE4-48A0-48EB-A880-432AFB6080D5" src="cid:8A267772-F40A-46DC-B764-34AFA932ED45" class=""></span><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><b class=""><font color="#0433ff" class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">David Breecker Associates</font></b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><b class=""><font color="#0433ff" class=""><a href="http://www.breeckerassociates.com" class="">www.breeckerassociates.com</a></font></b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; orphans: 2; widows: 2;"><b class=""><br class=""></b></div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; orphans: 2; widows: 2; word-wrap: break-word;"><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: normal;">Santa Fe Office: 505-690-2335</div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: normal;">Abiquiu Office: 505-685-4891</div><div class="" style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: normal;">Skype: dbreecker</div></div>
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