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<p class="MsoNormal">Good information, thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Steve Ross [mailto:editorsteve@gmail.com] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 18, 2017 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Badal <JBadal@sacred-wind.com><br>
<b>Cc:</b> John Brown <john@citylinkfiber.com>; 1st-Mile-NM <1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">AT&T has a big patent portfolio on this -- mainly ways to make the devices cheaply. The idea is to insert very high frequency signals on copper by clamping a transmitter on the wire, every few telephone poles along the line. This gets around
the key problem that high frequency signals don't carry very far on copper. With Airgig, they get refreshed every few hundred feet. The (potentially) little refresh/relay devices on the poles would also broadcast to nearby premises and the roadway, replacing
a physical drop.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">They also have variants that can be used on poles as needed to get around transformers and other devices that can screw up signals.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">This is quite different from the old BOP ideas around 2003-4 that inserted much lower frequency signals on devices much farther apart. We're talking 5+ and even 30+ Ghz now, 100 Mhz then.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Even with the short copper runs between signal refresh, the copper has to be in good shape. Latency is pretty high along the network as a whole, and that can be a problem for driverless vehicles, which would probably use 802.11p to communicate
with the little antennas that sit on the poles with the refresh circuitry. (Where 5G is installed, cars would presumably use cellular transmissions, not Ethernet 11p directly; ATT has a current test on that using 4G down in San Diego.) Unless conditions are
ideal, the costs climb to where fiber would be easier, especially once you look at opex....<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I would see a lot of trouble with using this on a transmission line above 880 V or even above 440 V just because the insulation and isolation issues get dicey and expensive; 440V would probably be the norm, though. Also, big transmission
lines usually have fiber alongside anyway. But there is no theoretical reason why this would not work on big DC lines, except that the tower spacing is greater.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We at Broadband Communities tend to think of these sorts of things in business terms. If the market is big enough, the devices can be multi-sourced and made cheaply. But no one solution seems ideal for huge swaths of problems. These are
things that bring about 5 or 10% more business cases into the money. And that is GREAT! We have not talked about this much at the magazine, so these opinions are my own.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<br>
Steve Ross<br>
Editor-at-Large, Broadband Communities Magazine (<a href="http://www.bbcmag.com" target="_blank">www.bbcmag.com</a>)<br>
201-456-5933 mobile<br>
707-WOW-SSR3 (707-969-7773) Google Voice<br>
editorsteve (Facebook, LinkedIn)<br>
editorsteve1 (Twitter)<br>
<a href="mailto:steve@bbcmag.com" target="_blank">steve@bbcmag.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:editorsteve@gmail.com" target="_blank">editorsteve@gmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:08 AM, John Badal <<a href="mailto:JBadal@sacred-wind.com" target="_blank">JBadal@sacred-wind.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I think you’re right. I just remember that Edison favored DC. Guess he lost.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> John Brown [mailto:<a href="mailto:john@citylinkfiber.com" target="_blank">john@citylinkfiber.com</a>]
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<b>Sent:</b> Monday, December 18, 2017 8:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Badal <<a href="mailto:JBadal@sacred-wind.com" target="_blank">JBadal@sacred-wind.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Breecker [dba] <<a href="mailto:david@breeckerassociates.com" target="_blank">david@breeckerassociates.com</a>>; 1st-Mile-NM <<a href="mailto:1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org" target="_blank">1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Aren't our power grids AC ?? <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:48 AM, John Badal <<a href="mailto:JBadal@sacred-wind.com" target="_blank">JBadal@sacred-wind.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I looked at this a few years ago, visiting with a former Sandia Labs expert on the matter, and concluded then that the technology was nowhere near acceptable in the U.S. Older
power equipment in rural areas and the number of transponders seemed to be just one hurdle. Signal loss is another. If I recall one overriding issue, with our DC electric power grids that require a power transformer every specified distance, Broadband Over
Powerline (BBPL) will require corrective equipment at every transformer, not just at the switch and customer premise. I’m eager to see what AT&T comes up with. It’ll take a deep pockets company to figure this out.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">John<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> 1st-mile-nm [mailto:<a href="mailto:1st-mile-nm-bounces@mailman.dcn.org" target="_blank">1st-mile-nm-bounces@mailman.dcn.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Breecker [dba]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, December 15, 2017 2:52 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 1st-Mile-NM <<a href="mailto:1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org" target="_blank">1st-mile-nm@mailman.dcn.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I’m curious to know if anyone knows anything about the effectiveness of this technology in its current state:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><a href="https://na.smartcitiescouncil.com/article/how-internet-over-power-lines-could-be-solution-underserved-communities" target="_blank">https://na.smartcitiescouncil.com/article/how-internet-over-power-lines-could-be-solution-underserved-communities</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">David Breecker,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">President</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0433FF"><br>
David Breecker Associates</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#0433FF"><a href="http://www.breeckerassociates.com" target="_blank">www.breeckerassociates.com</a></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Santa Fe Office:
<a href="tel:(505)%20690-2335" target="_blank">505-690-2335</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Abiquiu Office:
<a href="tel:(505)%20685-4891" target="_blank">505-685-4891</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:black">Skype: dbreecker</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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