[env-trinity] Navy exercises

Joshua Allen trinityjosh at gmail.com
Sat Dec 25 19:13:19 PST 2010

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. I'm not he moderator; haven't been for a few
years now. This is Byron and Tom's list-serve. So you should discuss it with


On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Joshua Allen <trinityjosh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Brian,
> That email probably came from either Byron or Tom, probably the later,
> based upon how it is written. Though as much as I may agree with you, in
> that war games in the Pacific Ocean in areas where Sacramento, Klamath,
> other salmonid fishery runs, and other endemic marine life will be directly
> affected by these actions; I also understand that some people are touchy
> about posting information on the list-serve not directly related to the
> Trinity. They have gotten complaints from a minority few who only want
> Trinity River restoration info posted. You just need to be aware of that.
> However I do not agree with the threat to ban you, or that this topic is
> not related to the Trinity restoration effort, because it is. Its kind of
> like saying, "Don't post about the Bay-Delta or agricultural water related
> issues because it's not directly related to restoration", which technically
> is not related to restoration. Though because those issues are indirectly
> connected with Trinity Restoration, the topic is discussed.
> It's kind of like going to TMC meetings and listening to them argue about
> jurisdiction. The ROD says that the TMC has restoration authority to the
> Pacific Ocean, though for some reason, they think that the parts that
> directly related to Trinity River restoration starts at Weithpec and ends at
> Lewiston. Though this viewpoint does not take into the whole of issues (i.e.
> systems theory), as only a part of the problem is taken into account.
> Yeah, we can raise fish in a hatchery and below the dam, but what about
> their native habitat above the dam, and providing access to it? What about
> Klamath River water quality affecting Trinity River fish? What about
> coordinated restoration of habitat below Weitchpec? What about oceanic
> conditions that affect Trinity River fish during their maturation phase? How
> many fish will be killed during war games that would have otherwise made it
> back upstream to spawn? What about the water that the powers that be would
> rather send over the hill? Some of these questions are directly related,
> while others are indirectly related. Either way, as a planner, you take into
> account direct and indirect effects to propose alternative solutions. If you
> don't, the proposition is incomplete.
> So yes, I agree with you, and think Trinity River enthusiasts should know
> about oceanic actions by our government that will affect a program ran by
> same said government. We should always question authority, be it the
> federal, state, local government, or military; as well as test comfort
> boundaries of some people who only want to look at directly related issues.
> Such is the purpose of pluralism; to exchange ideas, discuss issues, and
> propose solutions that meet everyone's needs.
> Josh
> 2010/12/24 Brian Hill <bhill at igc.org>
>> Beth
>> the env-trinity list threatened to block me for posting emails regarding
>> Navy exercises, so I'll have to contact members individually.  I already
>> sent an note to Schlosser.
>> Brian
>> *From:* Beth Robinson Bosk [mailto:nsi at mcn.org]
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 24, 2010 3:45 PM
>> *To:* Brian Hill; 'David Frankel'
>> *Cc:* 'Tom Ballanco'; 'Bill Weinberg'; Richard K. Moore; 'Ed Saukkooja'
>> We need a Brown v. Board of Education argument based on harm in front of a
>> west coast federal judge to overturn the Supreme Court decision David
>> Frankel alluded to. [It was Tom Schlosser [t.schlosser at msaj.com who is a
>> member of env-trinity-bounces at velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us] Plessey was
>> overturned because societal values changed. The armed forces in this country
>> no longer go unchallenged by a majority.  Tom, David can you pull together a
>> contingent of attorneys from the Pacific Rim realms of Washington, Oregon
>> and California to take the Navy on based on harm.  Because people coalesce
>> into a spoken-word mob every time there is another meeting re. Navy Weapons
>> training & testing off the California, Oregon and Washington coast. Have
>> been very plain spoken about militarization of the oceans and ecocide. At
>> the hall- packed meeting in Fort Bragg, the Navy's PR guy opened with a
>> paragraph stating the Navy DOES NOT OWN the open seas and has no legitimate
>> jurisdiction out there to keep people away from their vessels. Talk of
>> flotillas is already on the airwaves in Humboldt County.  A good team of
>> lawyers seems to me to be a necessary step and will have plenty of support.
>> --Beth Bosk
>> P.S. Anybody who needs a copy of my last issue of New Settler [magazine], where
>> the owner of the Mendocino Cafe lays out the Navy's plans from the point of
>> view of a no-nonsense citizen, can email me for a copy with their address.
>> It's a bracing commentary and indicative of how courageous people will get
>> around this issue.
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"A human being is part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in
time and space. We experience ourselves, our thoughts and feelings as
something separate from the rest. A kind of optical delusion of
consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to
our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our
task must be to free ourselves from the prison by widening our circle of
compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its
beauty. The true value of a human being is determined by the measure and the
sense in which they have obtained liberation from the self. We shall require
a substantially new manner of thinking if humanity is to survive." ~ Albert
Einstein, 1954
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