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<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Wait, wait. Paul, it seems that in your
frustration you've embraced an argument that was advanced by Westlands and
others to obstruct the return of water to the Trinity- namely that fish
population declines can be solved by reducing harvests, so it's
unnecessary to address apparent flow deficiencies (at least, not until we
reduce harvests and monitor the results for a decade or two...). After
many (too many!) years of study and discussion of the sort that you propose,
this argument ended up discredited among intellectually honest people.
It doesn't "hold water" for Trinity River circumstances, and I don't see
why it would hold water for other Klamath tributaries.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Consider, if available habitat can't support
adequate numbers of young fish, which was found to be the case on the Trinity
and which Felice argues is the case on the Scott (is he off base on this? how
and why?), then we have a problem that can't be successfully addressed (and
indeed, will probably be exacerbated) by increasing the number of
spawners. If we put 1000 young fish into a stream that can only support
100, we'll end up with less than 100, not more than 100,
surviving. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Also, it doesn't seem reasonable to say that a
harvest based on projections is "indiscriminate".</FONT> <FONT size=2
face=Verdana> Of course we need appropriate harvest management, and of
course appropriate harvest management requires accurate projections. All
fishers should, and I believe most fishers do, support appropriate harvest
levels and improvement in run projections. I've personally heard repeated
and credible support for these things from those lower-reach netters you
mention. If you want to argue about how the harvest is divided among
different groups of fishers, that's fine, but it's not the same topic as
restoration science and strategy.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Regardless, it seems like a big mistake for any
fisher to argue that better flows are maybe unnecessary in a flow-depleted
system with struggling fish populations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana>Arnold Whitridge </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2 face=Verdana></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=pcatanese@dhscott.com href="mailto:pcatanese@dhscott.com">Paul
Catanese</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=unofelice@gmail.com
href="mailto:unofelice@gmail.com">Felice Pace</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=env-trinity@mailman.dcn.org
href="mailto:env-trinity@mailman.dcn.org">Trinity List</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 01, 2014 1:51
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [env-trinity] env-trinity
Digest, Vol 119, Issue 43</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Felice: based on your logic it would seem that indiscriminate over
netting at the lower reaches based on bogus projections of fish returns would
have a significantly greater negative impact on the on the species than
surface water. What say you. Let's be intellectually honest. Let's study
that. </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><BR>Sent from my iPhone</DIV>
<DIV><BR>On Jan 1, 2014, at 11:13 AM, "Felice Pace" <<A
href="mailto:unofelice@gmail.com">unofelice@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
<DIV>
<DIV dir=ltr>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>The second largest Coho run on the Scott in redecent years is good news
but the numbers Sari shared indicate that we are not making progress in
rebuilding the Scott Coho population to anything near biological viability
over the long run. To give raders a more complete view perhpas Sari or Tom
will share a full data set for the last 10 years, i.e. the ¨bad¨years as
well as the ¨good¨ - so that folks get a more comlete picture.
<BR><BR></DIV>The dewatering of the Scott and key tribs each summer is
likely the top factor preventing recovery of Scott Coho to long-term
viability. Very few of the progeny of this year´s relatively ¨good¨ run will
make it to the ocean. Many will be killed by dewatering below irrigation
diversions and others by Klamath mainstem conditions. A multi-year
deep drought could still wipe out Scott Coho. We remain on the edge of
functional extinction. Until SWRCB begins or is forced to actually measure
and regulate diversions and groundwater pumping Scott Coho will remain on
the brink of extinciton. <BR><BR></DIV>Those who work to ¨protect¨surface
and groundwater irrigators from regulation are an impediment to
recovery. <BR><BR></DIV>Felice Pace<BR></DIV>
<DIV class=gmail_extra><BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Mon, Dec 30, 2013 at 4:00 PM, <SPAN dir=ltr><<A
href="mailto:env-trinity-request@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us"
target=_blank>env-trinity-request@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us</A>></SPAN>
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex"
class=gmail_quote>Send env-trinity mailing list submissions to<BR>
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replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<BR>than
"Re: Contents of env-trinity digest..."<BR><BR><BR>Today's
Topics:<BR><BR> 1. Siskiyou Daily News: Scott River Coho run
largest since 2007<BR> (Tom Stokely)<BR>
2. Re: Siskiyou Daily News: Scott River Coho run
largest since<BR> 2007 (Sari
Sommarstrom)<BR><BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Message:
1<BR>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:14:43 -0800 (PST)<BR>From: Tom Stokely
<<A href="mailto:tstokely@att.net">tstokely@att.net</A>><BR>Subject:
[env-trinity] Siskiyou Daily News: Scott River Coho run<BR>
largest since 2007<BR>To: "<A
href="mailto:env-trinity@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us">env-trinity@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us</A>"<BR>
<<A
href="mailto:env-trinity@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us">env-trinity@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us</A>><BR>Message-ID:<BR>
<<A
href="mailto:1388430883.61428.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com">1388430883.61428.YahooMailNeo@web125402.mail.ne1.yahoo.com</A>><BR>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="utf-8"<BR><BR><A
href="http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/article/20131217/NEWS/131219773"
target=_blank>http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/article/20131217/NEWS/131219773</A>?<BR><BR>December
17. 2013 9:48AM<BR>Scott River Coho run largest since 2007<BR>PHOTO/ PHOTO
COURTESY CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE<BR>The Shasta River
video weir, located close to the Klamath River, was damaged on Dec. 9 by
the icy conditions in the river.<BR>After a large influx of Coho salmon in
the past few weeks, the Scott River has seen its largest return of the
species since 2007.?<BR>The latest data from the California Department of
Fish and Wildlife video weirs on the Klamath?s tributaries shows a
relatively strong return this year for Chinook and Coho, with the Scott?s
Chinook numbers as of Dec. 10 coming in just under the seven year average
weir data. Final counts for the Scott also rely on carcass and spawning
area counts, which have not yet been finalized.?<BR>On Bogus Creek, the
numbers of Chinook and Coho passing the video weir have trickled to a
halt, with only one Coho returning between Dec. 4 and Dec. 10.?<BR>So far,
the Bogus numbers are 3,143 Chinook and 290 Coho, which the data shows is
the strongest Coho return since 2004 and the third-smallest Chinook return
in that same time period.?<BR>The end of season for the Shasta counts was
called on Dec. 10, due to ice floes damaging the weir on Dec. 9. The
Chinook count came in at 8,127, the third-largest return since 2001, with
151 Coho, the highest number of that species since 2007.?<BR>The Scott and
Bogus weirs are still operating, according to CDFW?environmental scientist
Morgan Knechtle, and once the final numbers are compiled and finalized,
they will be used in forecasts for 2014.<BR>-------------- next part
--------------<BR>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<BR>URL: <A
href="http://www2.dcn.org/pipermail/env-trinity/attachments/20131230/5cd895d4/attachment-0001.html"
target=_blank>http://www2.dcn.org/pipermail/env-trinity/attachments/20131230/5cd895d4/attachment-0001.html</A><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Message:
2<BR>Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 11:47:59 -0800<BR>From: "Sari Sommarstrom"
<<A href="mailto:sari@sisqtel.net">sari@sisqtel.net</A>><BR>Subject:
Re: [env-trinity] Siskiyou Daily News: Scott River Coho run<BR>
largest since 2007<BR>To: "'Tom Stokely'" <<A
href="mailto:tstokely@att.net">tstokely@att.net</A>>,<BR>
<<A
href="mailto:env-trinity@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us">env-trinity@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us</A>><BR>Message-ID:
<00ef01cf0598$0b2389c0$216a9d40$@<A href="http://sisqtel.net"
target=_blank>sisqtel.net</A>><BR>Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="utf-8"<BR><BR>What was missing from the article was the actual
number of coho seen at the weir at RM 18 on the Scott River: 1,264 adults
as of 12/18. Final figure won?t be available until after the weir closes
in early January and the downstream estimate is added in.<BR><BR>For this
same brood year, the recent figure compares with the final weir counts of
911 in 2010 and 1,622 in 2007.<BR><BR><BR><BR>~Sari
Sommarstrom<BR><BR>Etna<BR><BR><BR><BR>From: <A
href="mailto:env-trinity-bounces@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us">env-trinity-bounces@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us</A>
[mailto:<A
href="mailto:env-trinity-bounces@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us">env-trinity-bounces@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us</A>]
On Behalf Of Tom Stokely<BR>Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 11:15
AM<BR>To: <A
href="mailto:env-trinity@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us">env-trinity@velocipede.dcn.davis.ca.us</A><BR>Subject:
[env-trinity] Siskiyou Daily News: Scott River Coho run largest since
2007<BR><BR><BR><BR><A
href="http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/article/20131217/NEWS/131219773"
target=_blank>http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/article/20131217/NEWS/131219773</A><BR><BR>December
17. 2013 9:48AM<BR><BR><BR>Scott River Coho run largest since
2007<BR><BR><BR> The Shasta River video weir,located close to the
Klamath River, was damaged on Dec. 9 by the icy conditions in the river.
<<A
href="http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/storyimage/CA/20131217/NEWS/131219773/AR/0/AR-131219773.jpg&MaxH=225&MaxW=225"
target=_blank>http://www.siskiyoudaily.com/storyimage/CA/20131217/NEWS/131219773/AR/0/AR-131219773.jpg&MaxH=225&MaxW=225</A>><BR><BR>PHOTO/
PHOTO COURTESY CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND WILDLIFE<BR><BR>The
Shasta River video weir, located close to the Klamath River, was damaged
on Dec. 9 by the icy conditions in the river.<BR><BR>After a large influx
of Coho salmon in the past few weeks, the Scott River has seen its largest
return of the species since 2007.<BR>The latest data from the California
Department of Fish and Wildlife video weirs on the Klamath?s tributaries
shows a relatively strong return this year for Chinook and Coho, with the
Scott?s Chinook numbers as of Dec. 10 coming in just under the seven year
average weir data. Final counts for the Scott also rely on carcass and
spawning area counts, which have not yet been finalized.<BR>On Bogus
Creek, the numbers of Chinook and Coho passing the video weir have
trickled to a halt, with only one Coho returning between Dec. 4 and Dec.
10.<BR>So far, the Bogus numbers are 3,143 Chinook and 290 Coho, which the
data shows is the strongest Coho return since 2004 and the third-smallest
Chinook return in that same time period.<BR>The end of season for the
Shasta counts was called on Dec. 10, due to ice floes damaging the weir on
Dec. 9. The Chinook count came in at 8,127, the third-largest return since
2001, with 151 Coho, the highest number of that species since 2007.<BR>The
Scott and Bogus weirs are still operating, according to CDFW?environmental
scientist Morgan Knechtle, and once the final numbers are compiled and
finalized, they will be used in forecasts for 2014.<BR><BR>--------------
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mailing list<BR><A
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of env-trinity Digest, Vol 119, Issue
43<BR>********************************************<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR
clear=all><BR>-- <BR>Felice Pace<BR>Klamath, CA 95548<BR>707-954-6588
<BR><BR>"we must always seek the truth in our opponents' error and the error
in our own truth."<BR><BR>
- Reinhold
Niebuhr<BR><BR>
<BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE type="cite">
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