[1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial
Trey Scarborough
trey at 3dsc.co
Wed Dec 27 10:22:13 PST 2017
These articles are very misleading. They are not actually doing internet
over the power lines, but using the power poles... Something they have
done for as long as I know. The difference is that they are using small
cell and high frequency microwave 60/80-ghz. Currently these are being
installed on top of the power poles not actually using the power lines
for anything other than power. Not sure how these was construed as
gigabit over power lines.
On 12/18/2017 10:56 AM, Steve Ross wrote:
> AT&T has a big patent portfolio on this -- mainly ways to make the
> devices cheaply. The idea is to insert very high frequency signals on
> copper by clamping a transmitter on the wire, every few telephone poles
> along the line. This gets around the key problem that high frequency
> signals don't carry very far on copper. With Airgig, they get refreshed
> every few hundred feet. The (potentially) little refresh/relay devices
> on the poles would also broadcast to nearby premises and the roadway,
> replacing a physical drop.
>
> They also have variants that can be used on poles as needed to get
> around transformers and other devices that can screw up signals.
>
> This is quite different from the old BOP ideas around 2003-4 that
> inserted much lower frequency signals on devices much farther apart.
> We're talking 5+ and even 30+ Ghz now, 100 Mhz then.
>
> Even with the short copper runs between signal refresh, the copper has
> to be in good shape. Latency is pretty high along the network as a
> whole, and that can be a problem for driverless vehicles, which would
> probably use 802.11p to communicate with the little antennas that sit on
> the poles with the refresh circuitry. (Where 5G is installed, cars would
> presumably use cellular transmissions, not Ethernet 11p directly; ATT
> has a current test on that using 4G down in San Diego.) Unless
> conditions are ideal, the costs climb to where fiber would be easier,
> especially once you look at opex....
>
> I would see a lot of trouble with using this on a transmission line
> above 880 V or even above 440 V just because the insulation and
> isolation issues get dicey and expensive; 440V would probably be the
> norm, though. Also, big transmission lines usually have fiber alongside
> anyway. But there is no theoretical reason why this would not work on
> big DC lines, except that the tower spacing is greater.
>
> We at Broadband Communities tend to think of these sorts of things in
> business terms. If the market is big enough, the devices can be
> multi-sourced and made cheaply. But no one solution seems ideal for huge
> swaths of problems. These are things that bring about 5 or 10% more
> business cases into the money. And that is GREAT! We have not talked
> about this much at the magazine, so these opinions are my own.
>
>
>
> Steve Ross
> Editor-at-Large, Broadband Communities Magazine (www.bbcmag.com
> <http://www.bbcmag.com>)
> 201-456-5933 mobile
> 707-WOW-SSR3 (707-969-7773) Google Voice
> editorsteve (Facebook, LinkedIn)
> editorsteve1 (Twitter)
> steve at bbcmag.com <mailto:steve at bbcmag.com>
> editorsteve at gmail.com <mailto:editorsteve at gmail.com>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:08 AM, John Badal <JBadal at sacred-wind.com
> <mailto:JBadal at sacred-wind.com>> wrote:
>
> I think you’re right. I just remember that Edison favored DC.
> Guess he lost.____
>
> __ __
>
> John____
>
> __ __
>
> *From:* John Brown [mailto:john at citylinkfiber.com
> <mailto:john at citylinkfiber.com>]
> *Sent:* Monday, December 18, 2017 8:52 AM
> *To:* John Badal <JBadal at sacred-wind.com
> <mailto:JBadal at sacred-wind.com>>
> *Cc:* David Breecker [dba] <david at breeckerassociates.com
> <mailto:david at breeckerassociates.com>>; 1st-Mile-NM
> <1st-mile-nm at mailman.dcn.org <mailto:1st-mile-nm at mailman.dcn.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial____
>
> __ __
>
> Aren't our power grids AC ?? ____
>
> __ __
>
> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:48 AM, John Badal <JBadal at sacred-wind.com
> <mailto:JBadal at sacred-wind.com>> wrote:____
>
> I looked at this a few years ago, visiting with a former Sandia
> Labs expert on the matter, and concluded then that the
> technology was nowhere near acceptable in the U.S. Older power
> equipment in rural areas and the number of transponders seemed
> to be just one hurdle. Signal loss is another. If I recall one
> overriding issue, with our DC electric power grids that require
> a power transformer every specified distance, Broadband Over
> Powerline (BBPL) will require corrective equipment at every
> transformer, not just at the switch and customer premise. I’m
> eager to see what AT&T comes up with. It’ll take a deep pockets
> company to figure this out.____
>
> ____
>
> John____
>
> ____
>
> ____
>
> ____
>
> *From:* 1st-mile-nm [mailto:1st-mile-nm-bounces at mailman.dcn.org
> <mailto:1st-mile-nm-bounces at mailman.dcn.org>] *On Behalf Of
> *David Breecker [dba]
> *Sent:* Friday, December 15, 2017 2:52 PM
> *To:* 1st-Mile-NM <1st-mile-nm at mailman.dcn.org
> <mailto:1st-mile-nm at mailman.dcn.org>>
> *Subject:* [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial____
>
> ____
>
> I’m curious to know if anyone knows anything about the
> effectiveness of this technology in its current state:____
>
> ____
>
> https://na.smartcitiescouncil.com/article/how-internet-over-power-lines-could-be-solution-underserved-communities
> <https://na.smartcitiescouncil.com/article/how-internet-over-power-lines-could-be-solution-underserved-communities>____
>
> ____
>
> David Breecker,____
>
> President____
>
>
> ____
>
> *
> David Breecker Associates*____
>
> *www.breeckerassociates.com <http://www.breeckerassociates.com>*____
>
> ____
>
> Santa Fe Office: 505-690-2335 <tel:(505)%20690-2335>____
>
> Abiquiu Office: 505-685-4891 <tel:(505)%20685-4891>____
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> Skype: dbreecker____
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> ____
>
>
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