[1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial
John Brown
john at citylinkfiber.com
Wed Dec 27 10:24:18 PST 2017
The two words are
Spinn
and
Marketing
On Wed, Dec 27, 2017 at 11:22 AM, Trey Scarborough <trey at 3dsc.co> wrote:
> These articles are very misleading. They are not actually doing internet
> over the power lines, but using the power poles... Something they have done
> for as long as I know. The difference is that they are using small cell and
> high frequency microwave 60/80-ghz. Currently these are being installed on
> top of the power poles not actually using the power lines for anything other
> than power. Not sure how these was construed as gigabit over power lines.
>
>
> On 12/18/2017 10:56 AM, Steve Ross wrote:
>>
>> AT&T has a big patent portfolio on this -- mainly ways to make the devices
>> cheaply. The idea is to insert very high frequency signals on copper by
>> clamping a transmitter on the wire, every few telephone poles along the
>> line. This gets around the key problem that high frequency signals don't
>> carry very far on copper. With Airgig, they get refreshed every few hundred
>> feet. The (potentially) little refresh/relay devices on the poles would also
>> broadcast to nearby premises and the roadway, replacing a physical drop.
>>
>> They also have variants that can be used on poles as needed to get around
>> transformers and other devices that can screw up signals.
>>
>> This is quite different from the old BOP ideas around 2003-4 that inserted
>> much lower frequency signals on devices much farther apart. We're talking 5+
>> and even 30+ Ghz now, 100 Mhz then.
>>
>> Even with the short copper runs between signal refresh, the copper has to
>> be in good shape. Latency is pretty high along the network as a whole, and
>> that can be a problem for driverless vehicles, which would probably use
>> 802.11p to communicate with the little antennas that sit on the poles with
>> the refresh circuitry. (Where 5G is installed, cars would presumably use
>> cellular transmissions, not Ethernet 11p directly; ATT has a current test on
>> that using 4G down in San Diego.) Unless conditions are ideal, the costs
>> climb to where fiber would be easier, especially once you look at opex....
>>
>> I would see a lot of trouble with using this on a transmission line above
>> 880 V or even above 440 V just because the insulation and isolation issues
>> get dicey and expensive; 440V would probably be the norm, though. Also, big
>> transmission lines usually have fiber alongside anyway. But there is no
>> theoretical reason why this would not work on big DC lines, except that the
>> tower spacing is greater.
>>
>> We at Broadband Communities tend to think of these sorts of things in
>> business terms. If the market is big enough, the devices can be
>> multi-sourced and made cheaply. But no one solution seems ideal for huge
>> swaths of problems. These are things that bring about 5 or 10% more business
>> cases into the money. And that is GREAT! We have not talked about this much
>> at the magazine, so these opinions are my own.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve Ross
>> Editor-at-Large, Broadband Communities Magazine (www.bbcmag.com
>> <http://www.bbcmag.com>)
>> 201-456-5933 mobile
>> 707-WOW-SSR3 (707-969-7773) Google Voice
>> editorsteve (Facebook, LinkedIn)
>> editorsteve1 (Twitter)
>> steve at bbcmag.com <mailto:steve at bbcmag.com>
>> editorsteve at gmail.com <mailto:editorsteve at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 11:08 AM, John Badal <JBadal at sacred-wind.com
>> <mailto:JBadal at sacred-wind.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I think you’re right. I just remember that Edison favored DC.
>> Guess he lost.____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> John____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> *From:* John Brown [mailto:john at citylinkfiber.com
>> <mailto:john at citylinkfiber.com>]
>> *Sent:* Monday, December 18, 2017 8:52 AM
>> *To:* John Badal <JBadal at sacred-wind.com
>> <mailto:JBadal at sacred-wind.com>>
>> *Cc:* David Breecker [dba] <david at breeckerassociates.com
>> <mailto:david at breeckerassociates.com>>; 1st-Mile-NM
>> <1st-mile-nm at mailman.dcn.org <mailto:1st-mile-nm at mailman.dcn.org>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> Aren't our power grids AC ?? ____
>>
>> __ __
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 8:48 AM, John Badal <JBadal at sacred-wind.com
>> <mailto:JBadal at sacred-wind.com>> wrote:____
>>
>> I looked at this a few years ago, visiting with a former Sandia
>> Labs expert on the matter, and concluded then that the
>> technology was nowhere near acceptable in the U.S. Older power
>> equipment in rural areas and the number of transponders seemed
>> to be just one hurdle. Signal loss is another. If I recall one
>> overriding issue, with our DC electric power grids that require
>> a power transformer every specified distance, Broadband Over
>> Powerline (BBPL) will require corrective equipment at every
>> transformer, not just at the switch and customer premise. I’m
>> eager to see what AT&T comes up with. It’ll take a deep pockets
>> company to figure this out.____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> John____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> *From:* 1st-mile-nm [mailto:1st-mile-nm-bounces at mailman.dcn.org
>> <mailto:1st-mile-nm-bounces at mailman.dcn.org>] *On Behalf Of
>> *David Breecker [dba]
>> *Sent:* Friday, December 15, 2017 2:52 PM
>> *To:* 1st-Mile-NM <1st-mile-nm at mailman.dcn.org
>> <mailto:1st-mile-nm at mailman.dcn.org>>
>> *Subject:* [1st-mile-nm] AT&T broadband over power lines trial____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> I’m curious to know if anyone knows anything about the
>> effectiveness of this technology in its current state:____
>>
>> ____
>>
>>
>> https://na.smartcitiescouncil.com/article/how-internet-over-power-lines-could-be-solution-underserved-communities
>>
>> <https://na.smartcitiescouncil.com/article/how-internet-over-power-lines-could-be-solution-underserved-communities>____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> David Breecker,____
>>
>> President____
>>
>>
>> ____
>>
>> *
>> David Breecker Associates*____
>>
>> *www.breeckerassociates.com
>> <http://www.breeckerassociates.com>*____
>>
>> ____
>>
>> Santa Fe Office: 505-690-2335 <tel:(505)%20690-2335>____
>>
>> Abiquiu Office: 505-685-4891 <tel:(505)%20685-4891>____
>>
>> Skype: dbreecker____
>>
>> ____
>>
>>
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